By Rev. Kathy Neary and Patrick Scriven
Editor’s note: This is the final part of a conversation exploring ways to recenter discipleship as a core feature of United Methodism. The previous posts are linked here: Part 1, Part 2, Part 3, Part 4.
Kathy Neary: Well, Patrick, we both have ideas about what to do with a Church that has lost its primary purpose: growing disciples committed to transforming the world into the kingdom of God. You believe a well-resourced “hub plus satellites” model will cure what ails us. I believe we need a whole new structure focused on discipleship (“Discipleship Centers”), leaving worship to other churches that already do it well.
Before we spend more time and energy on fixing the Methodist system, it might be helpful to answer the fundamental question: What makes Methodism worth saving? Knowing why we should have a Methodist Church may clarify what kind of church we should have.
Patrick Scriven: A quick correction before we dive in. I am less convinced that the model I proposed is the solution than I am that most of our churches lack the resources to make a push to center discipleship as we would agree is necessary. Our churches and their pastoral leaders are doing the best they can, but the world is changing quickly, and we have been too slow to adapt.
Back to the question at hand. What makes Methodism worth saving? There are many ways to answer that question, but perhaps we should take a beat to define what we mean. After all, there are parts of our United Methodist experience that we also need to let die. So, Kathy, what is it about Methodism and what it offers (could offer) to the world today that is worth preserving?
KN: I suppose there are many approaches to answering this question. Historically (and a very simplified view at that), John and Charles Wesley saw the same lack of “enthusiasm” for discipleship in the Anglican Church that we see today among our United Methodists. Wesley’s small group approach grew out of a desire to increase the faith and enthusiasm of the people called Methodists. As you know, the very idea of putting people into small groups so they could connect deeply with each other and with God kind of took off, especially in the twentieth century.
Socially, we are in desperate need of organizations that offer people ways to connect with love and grace to others beyond our own families.
Theologically, Methodism offers people an alternative to both the disastrous ideology of Christian Nationalism, and the more deceptive “orthodox” theologies that focus on humanity as worthless, irredeemable, walking worms of creation, and God as a Creator who dishes out redemption in some random fashion based on bizarre interpretations of thousand year-old texts we (note: it’s always men) deem to be sacred.
I prefer to defend the need for Methodism because we believe God is love and God loves us. All of us. And that love is going to save the world. This theology is based on chocolate chip cookies.
PS: Historically, yes, the Wesleys were trying to respond to spiritual apathy in their day. And, yes, we need places that bring people together, particularly across difference, without minimizing those differences. Christian Nationalism can only exist in a world where “Christians” lack curiosity and connection with good, faithful people outside of the box or silo in which they live. Our internationalUnited Methodist connection inoculates us from this, but only if we are truly connected.
Wait, did you say something about cookies?
KN: I see you are a bit confused by my connecting the worth of Methodism to chocolate chip cookies. Of the four parts of the so-called “Wesleyan Quadrilateral” (scripture, tradition, reason, and experience), I think experience is the most Methodist of them all. Methodism developed from the pietistic strand of evangelism, which held that a personal experience of God’s love was essential to the conversion of a person’s heart.
Nothing I just wrote above is going to help a person experience or understand the love of God. But chocolate chip cookies can help.
My mother was not much of a cook, but she could make great chocolate chip cookies. I remember often coming home after school to find newly baked cookies in the cookie jar. There is something transformational about biting into a warm chocolate chip cookie and tasting the mix of chocolate, sugar and vanilla on your tongue, perfectly proportioned, and capable of washing away the difficulties of the day.
God’s love is like chocolate chip cookies: sweet and capable of making a person feel the love of the Creator. It is God’s love that transforms us into people who desire God and who desire to be disciples of God. I used to have a very short catechism for kids who attended my children’s sermons:
- Question 1: How do we know God loves us?
- Answer 1: We know God loves us because God put chocolate chip cookies in the world.
- Result 1: Have a cookie.
This is Methodism: God loves you. Have a cookie. Sounds simple and trite, doesn’t it? It is. But it takes courage to focus on the simple fact that God loves us, and God’s love will change us and the world.
People reading this will probably say I have lost the plot. However, the real worth of Methodism is that it is that simple: God loves us, and God’s love will open our eyes to what we already are: magnificent creations of God’s love. End of story.
In other types of Protestant Churches, they emphasize the free gift of God’s love but couch it in a theology that also emphasizes humanity’s wretchedness, which must be “saved” from itself by the sacrifice of Jesus. I think Jesus actually came to save us from that ludicrous idea and showed us that God’s love was unconditional, even available to the people who murdered Jesus! Now that is the definition of unconditional love!
Whew! I can really get going when it comes to talking about God’s love.
This is why we need to save Methodism: we need a Church that focuses on God’s love, and nothing else.
Why do you think we need to save Methodism?
PS: What you spoke to about simplicity resonates with me. Jesus simplified the Jewish law and the teachings of the Prophets to the love of God and neighbor, tying them together. This teaching cut through centuries of religious pontifications and rules that had become a burden.
I struggle with this question about saving Methodism because we are also carrying burdens, things we need to let go of, because they are not central.
So, if Methodism means back to basics, or to the essence of Jesus’ teachings, I’m all in. Christian Nationalism, for example, is antithetical to Christianity if you simply take Jesus at his word. The theological infrastructure necessary to convince people that Jesus didn’t intend for his followers to welcome the strangers and to love all their neighbors—even the ones that look, act, and believe differently—begs a teardown.
KN: I agree completely (Watch for lightning strikes in your area!). Another part of United Methodism we need to jettison is the anti-feminine bent of just about everything we do, from the language we use to the stories we choose to tell ourselves about which scriptural passages are worth reading. Our racism needs to be dealt with, as well as making reparations to all the indigenous and enslaved people we have harmed.
We need a leadership model that enables effective progress on that work while also prioritizing training, mentorship, and rotating leadership. There is so much that is not worth keeping that I end up essentially starting over with Discipleship Centers. I think if we just reform what we have, we will fail to grow disciples.
Reform will not work with the people we have, who tend to be on the older side of life, and are consciously or subconsciously too attached to the Methodism we have now. However, we need to love and support these people as they enter the last quarter of their lives.
Here’s a thought: We work on properly resourcing a few churches (maybe 2 or 3) and let them become the model for what could be with our current population of People Called Methodists. We see what works and build upon that model. AND we start a new Discipleship Center in the Seattle-Tacoma area, with dedicated pastoral leadership; by this, I mean it shouldn’t be a part-time project of an already overworked pastor.
We already have the beginnings of this type of ministry in our Vancouver, B.C. United Methodist Church. I have a feeling that leadership from this project may feed us as we try to start a similar thing. We put in the work for both these projects and develop the leadership models that will work for both. Then we pray. We pray for God’s love to be so real in our lives that we can’t help but share it.
Imagine having an endless supply of chocolate chip cookies. What else is there to do but share them, freely, with everyone you meet? God loves you. Here’s a cookie.
PS: Thanks. Who doesn’t like a cookie?
Yet even as I wrote that last sentence, intrusive thoughts arose. “Some people are gluten-free.” “What about diabetic people?” “Your wife doesn’t like chocolate chip cookies.”
Every metaphor has a breaking point, I suppose, but maybe we need just a little more diversity to reach people where they are.
I have little doubt that people would encounter God’s love in the Discipleship Centers you describe. Still, I do worry that such a shift would be difficult for those who have been faithful for so long. So, I appreciate what you have sketched out. To be successful, we would still need to concentrate resources, but we can do different things for different people.
Some people get a chocolate chip cookie. But we also offer other types of cookies because God loves all of us.
KN: Patrick, writing this series of articles with you has been a joy. I just want to make one last comment. I mentioned above that it takes courage to say all of our faith can be summarized in the statement, “God loves you.”
When I was younger, I spent way too much time trying to fit the orthodox thinking of Christian theology into a framework I could live with. I think I was trying to impress the many academics in my life with my knowledge of historical Christianity.
I had to grow into my (im)maturity over many years and reject the view that humanity was basically sinful, broken, and in need of fixing. That is not true. We are wonderful creations of a loving God. Together, we can build the Kingdom of God. That’s our story, and I’m sticking to it.
Rev. Kathy Neary serves as Transitional Ministry Developer for the Pacific Northwest (PNW) Conference of The United Methodist Church. She is in dialogue for this series with Patrick Scriven who serves as Director of Communications for the PNW Conference.
